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Author
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Topic: "Test-Plan" driven Method (Keith Zambelich)
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milan37
Member
Posts: 6
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 10-19-2001 09:42 AM
    
Has anyone tried this method of creating automated scripts?If so, would you mind describing if you were successful, and maybe some details about how you handled setting it up? I like the idea, but actual implementation seems to be to require an extremely sophisticated level of TSL expertise. I do have some other questions, but I'm interested in seeing if anyone's actually implemented this method first. Thanks!
Milan ------------------
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Elfriede Dustin
Moderator
Posts: 600
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 10-19-2001 05:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by milan37:
Has anyone tried this method of creating automated scripts?If so, would you mind describing if you were successful, and maybe some details about how you handled setting it up? I like the idea, but actual implementation seems to be to require an extremely sophisticated level of TSL expertise. I do have some other questions, but I'm interested in seeing if anyone's actually implemented this method first. Thanks!
Milan
Milan,
Can you provide a link to this "Test-Plan" driven method, for more details?
Thanks,
Elfriede
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milan37
Member
Posts: 6
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 10-19-2001 06:51 PM
Sure: http://www.sqa-test.com/method.html, then scroll down past the "functional decomposition method" section.I'm pretty sure it's the same thing that others here have referred to as "key word" driven or "action word" driven. I noticed a couple of posts about "key word" driven methodology, so sorry if I'm rehashing something that's been discussed already. Thanks!
Milan ------------------
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testgeek
Advanced Guru
Posts: 829
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 10-21-2001 12:05 PM
onsite discussions: http://www.qaforums.com/Forum34/HTML/000673.html http://www.qaforums.com/Forum34/HTML/000088.html http://www.qaforums.com/Forum34/HTML/000156.html offsite: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotDDEUsers/message/1314 http://members.aol.com/sascanagl/Default.htm ------------------
Thanks,
Tim Van Tongeren
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keithz
New Member
Posts: 3
Registered: Jul 1999
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posted 10-28-2001 01:26 PM
I believe I can address your question since I am the author of the information you are referencing.I have used this methodology at every client's site for the past several years. I am using this currently at American Honda Motors, and it is working quite well. This method has it's advantages, and disadvantages. The main advantage is that if you are working with a group of 'non-technical' testers, who may not be either willing or able to master a test tool's scripting language, you can get them to help you to automate the test cases while not having to deal with the tool. All they have to learn is the spreadsheet format. Some disadvantages are that this method is difficult to use if the application is extremely complex - or if it involves "dynamic" web pages, for example. In these cases, you need to develop so many "key-words" that it's just not practical. So there is a time and place for various methodologies. What I do is design a "structure" that allows me to combine all of the methods: Record/Playback (or straight "scripting"), Functional Decomposition (Data-Driven Business Function Scripts), and the Key-Word method. Then I can use whatever is best for the particular situation at hand. For further reference, see my White Paper on the subject at: http://www.sqa-test.com/w_paper1.html. If you have further questions on this, feel free to contact me at: keithz@sqa-test.com Keith Zambelich
Automated Testing Specialists, Inc.
Los Angeles, CA http://www.sqa-test.com ------------------
[This message has been edited by keithz (edited 10-28-2001).]
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saulsbsj
New Member
Posts: 3
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 11-15-2001 06:19 AM
I have used this methodology based on the documentation that Keith has provided on his website and it works! I am using this approach for both a web and java-client application using Winrunner.This testing system uses Advanced TSL to include TestDirector APIs. The methodology is straight forward, but you must discipline yourself to stay within scope. It took me 2 weeks to develop a proof-of-concept. It took another 2 months to complete the development necessary to test a major web application with the help of 2 additional resources. In theory, it works. In practice, it works. You do, however, need good project management, system design, and TSL skills to bring a project to completion.
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e-tester
Guru
Posts: 216
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 11-15-2001 11:10 AM
Suffering from a major brain malfunction and can not force myself to retrieve the definition for TSL. I know what it means, or at least did at one point in time. Can someone enlighten me please?------------------
ER,
Sr. QA Lead
Never mind, like I said I knew just couldn't think of it. It hit me in the back of the head after I posted this (tools scripting language)
[This message has been edited by e-tester (edited 11-15-2001).]
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jstrazzere
Moderator
Posts: 2134
Registered: May 2000
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posted 11-15-2001 11:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by e-tester:
Suffering from a major brain malfunction and can not force myself to retrieve the definition for TSL. I know what it means, or at least did at one point in time. Can someone enlighten me please?
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ER,
Sr. QA Lead
Never mind, like I said I knew just couldn't think of it. It hit me in the back of the head after I posted this (tools scripting language)
[This message has been edited by e-tester (edited 11-15-2001).]
Actually "Test Script Language".
Part of Mercury's WinRunner. ------------------
- Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)
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QAGirl
Moderator
Posts: 2424
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 11-16-2001 05:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by saulsbsj:
In theory, it works. In practice, it works. You do, however, need good project management, system design, and TSL skills to bring a project to completion.
So would it be safe to say that this particular methodology is more effective in companies with mature processes and teams? ------------------
"I want the fairy tale..."
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ikot
Member
Posts: 36
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-21-2001 01:43 PM
well,
Let's just think a little bit.
You have a powerfull scripting language and instead of using it you are creating your own language on the top of TSL. Can I ask for what reason? Because your people do not know TSL well enough? Trust me if they don't, it will never work for you or you should pay big bucks to the people who create this for you, all the time.
Why you should create some function to click on the button if you have existing one in TSL? What will happen if you will need to do something extra next time? New key word? What if something extra again?
Sorry, but it's absurd.
I was going through this ones, and can tell everybody Don't go there!------------------
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tmpalaniselvam
Advanced Guru
Posts: 502
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 11-22-2001 07:32 AM
Hi!
We have implemented part of the 'Table Driven Architecture'. It is working fine. But we doesn't support all controls. Data driven testing is a good concept.
quote:
Originally posted by ikot:
well,
Can I ask for what reason? Because your people do not know TSL well enough? Trust me if they don't, it will never work for you or you should pay big bucks to the people who create this for you, all the time.
Why you should create some function to click on the button if you have existing one in TSL?
To create or develop good scripts, user defined functions are more importatant. It is more useful, if it will be the generic code.
For example, to click a button, but it may be verified whether exists or not. May verify, whether it is enabled or not.
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Thanks & Regards,
Palani.
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ikot
Member
Posts: 36
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-29-2001 02:10 PM
To create or develop good scripts, user defined functions are more importatant. It is more useful, if it will be the generic code. For example, to click a button, but it may be verified whether exists or not. May verify, whether it is enabled or not.
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Thanks & Regards,
Palani*****************************************
Does Mr. Palani understand what he is talking about? "generic code"?
Did I mentioned that user defined functions are bad?
You will be lost in this jungle that you are building right now, i am giving you 100%. Good luck! ------------------
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rdsenthil
New Member
Posts: 4
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-30-2001 03:27 AM
Yes. We have come up with the architecture which is very similar to Test Plan driven method. We have implemented it successively in web based application. The testers need not touch the code. He is required to update/edit the test data and control names alone. The navigational sequences also is defined in it. Hence tester need not worry when a new control is added or navigational sequence is changed.Ikot asked the right question, if already TSL has given the function to play values into controls then why should we have to come up with new one?? There are so many white papers are available which describes the problems in automation when a raw test tool functions are used for automation. We have to encapsulate the code from data then only we will taste the success in automation.
Thanks
Senthil Kumar RD
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Thanks,
Senthil Kumar R.D
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tmpalaniselvam
Advanced Guru
Posts: 502
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 11-30-2001 06:07 AM
Hello, Boss!
quote:
Does Mr. Palani understand what he is talking about? "generic code"?
Did I mentioned that user defined functions are bad?
You will be lost in this jungle that you are building right now, i am giving you 100%.
You didn't mention anywhere that user defined functions are bad. I apologize if mistakes made by me.Why you should create some function to click on the button if you have existing one in TSL?
If you are going to develop automated tool or framework, you will write generic code. While using framework, you will need to change only input or data files. So that your code will be working as very customized one.
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Thanks & Regards,
Palani.
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ikot
Member
Posts: 36
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-30-2001 11:12 AM
If you are going to develop automated tool or framework, you will write generic code. While using framework, you will need to change only input or data files.
***
Could you explain why you need to develop an automated tool if you just bought one?
What do you by saying generic code? Are you trying to convict me that key words that you are creating is a generic code?So that your code will be working as very customized one.
**
right, right.
Do you understand that you are creating new language on the top of existing one? Do you understand that for any, i am repeating ANY new objects, or functionality you need to create new key word (function), put it in the library, educate your people... Do you understand that you need then load all this functions to the memory? How many of them you will have in a year?
How are you planning to manage all of this?
And now, let's assume that tomorrow new person who knows TSL will join your team, what an enjoyment to learn new language in addition to TSL!
You are waisting money of your company! ------------------
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